The 'angry mob' has been at it again. Lily Allen has declared that she's not planning to make another record and erased her anti-piracy blog due to abuse from the web community. It's a shame that artists who take a stand are subject to name calling and an onslaught of liable damage on the internet just for forming an opinion. Albeit, an opinion that many don't agree with. To be honest, I don't see how trying to tear someone apart and rip them to shreds is productive for p2p. In my opinion, it only hurts your position. And right now isn't very good timing for the file-sharing movement to be looking like a bunch of bullying twats, is it? (oops, see, I've just called the 'bullies' bullying twats! incredible! How hypocritical...'sarcasm intended'... I am. lol)The thing that bothers me most about all this egg throwing, is that these people who do the name-calling are the same ones who hide behind anonymous identities. They generally are not people who have a public image and I doubt they would actually say some of the things that they say if they were to meet you in person. In fact, all those people leaving nasty comments are more or less cowards who enjoy complaining but rarely take any form of positive action. Nobody's truly interested except for the other sad people who enjoy being destructive. Theoretically, these types of people who waste their time degrading others on the net are same type of people who are proud of their ASBOs. In general, destructive people are a waste of time. And believe it or not, this 'anonymity' on the web will likely disappear in the future. Remember, the net was created by military and was never designed for the public domain. We've known for quite some time that the net is due a redesign. (But, that's another issue concerning the future and ways to deal with your internet passports.)
How many of these web complainers have written to their MP or Senator about their stance on copyright or their stance on P2p? Many have plenty of time to comment, but, how many have actually done at least the bare minimum like sign a petition? Did any of them write to Mandelson? I know I have. I've written to nearly every influential person I can think of for the past few years with what I believe could represent possible solutions. Remember Lawrence Lessig's book "Free Culture".
“A free culture is not a culture without property; it is not a culture in which artists don't get paid. A culture without property, or in which creators can't get paid, is anarchy, not freedom.”-Lessig
He also states: “I believe that "piracy" is wrong, and that the law, properly tuned, should punish "piracy," whether on or off the Internet. But those simple beliefs mask a much more fundamental question and a much more dramatic change. My fear is that unless we come to see this change, the war to rid the world of Internet "pirates" will also rid our culture of values that have been integral to our tradition from the start.”
We mostly all agree that governments & Isp's taking internet access away from their customers is a complete non-starter. Maybe if Lily had a little more time to think about it, she would realise that as well. Not that I could predict the future last year, but, didn't you also see it coming? The 'internet police' plotting to take away your Internet passports (access via your IP, etc.) They are here now. Have you not heard? They want to block you from the internet and in some cases even fine you or whatever. That's what is on the agenda. I told you last year that I don't think it's right, but, they are attempting to do it in the name of 'protection'. They'll find any excuse. In this instance, it's protection of copyright. Now, everyone got really pissed off at me last year when I pointed this out and asked TPB 'why don't you start 'sharing' with the creators. The real problem is that in this past year, you've done nothing to develop or propose a viable solution. The Pirate Party has taken one extreme by saying creators don't have a right to earn from their works (please see Rick Falkvinge's statements as head of the Pirate Party in Sweden as per BBC interview Sun. Sept. 11th, 10am on Scottish BBC and twitter, and youtube videos from my last blog) and the RIAA keeps suing people. It's a joke. Most of you sit somewhere in the middle, make comments, and sit with a bag of crisps next to your PC's typing to the sound of your keyboard revelling at how cutting you can be when someone threatens peer-to-peer.
It's really down to a couple or maybe three rather obvious solutions. Nobody needs to get rid of piracy, it simply needs to be legalised in such a way that it's no longer piracy. There are some obvious solutions that would require participation from all media on the web, all websites who host, track, or deliver media, the ISPs, the government and YOU.
Below are some solutions that I've suggested before in a previous blog. If you have a moment, have a look at the petition. If you agree with it, sign it. The only way that you will be able to avoid these newly proposed laws that could potentially infringe on civil liberties is to come up with a plan that makes sense to law makers. You start out with a proposal that offers a solution to a problem that we all want solved.
Potential Solutions:
Here’s the real deal, if we don’t try to come to a compromise that suits everyone, government is going to march in and that’ll be the end of it. It’s time to start seriously thinking about this and take some action otherwise; it’s your own fault. It’s like Lily says, “It’s not me, It’s you”. It shouldn’t be just artists who stand up and make points, not just p2p users complaining about or praising artists opinions, and not just media giants who get their foot in the door pressuring governments. It’s YOU. Sweden gave us Abba and now we’ve got The Pirate Party. But, what has a mediocre and apathetic majority given us? Why complain unless you are prepared to take action? At what point will the angry mob actually stand up and organize and present a fair solution? We have the technology. The Internet has provided some of the greatest forms of distribution of Intellectual Property and ‘copyright’ ever known to man. If you like what you’re using, why not defend it properly?
Where are the solutions? I think there are probably several. But, a few solutions are apparent to me. 1) The Internet needs a Compulsory global license for Music.
This would enable websites to calculate their margins and contributions for the use of music and other media would become more standardized, which essentially reduces costs, and create a fair playing field. It would take some of the ‘control’ out of the hands of the music industry, but, the result would be hugely beneficial and rather than oppressing artistic culture financially, it would help stimulate and compensate.
2) A levy on the ISPs needs to be introduced. The Internet needs to be levied at its access points. Telecom companies are your Internet passport. They are the gateway between you and the media on the Internet. Telecoms are expanding rapidly even during a global recession. People have become very dependent on this ‘internet passport.’ The telecoms generate huge revenues and turn over massive profits. They are selling connections and bandwidth based on the premise that people want to access culture. We are paying for access. A portion of their revenues should be allocated to the media that people are accessing. A levy on the ISPs and mobile phone networks towards compensating creators would allow a passage of ‘free culture’ on the Internet whereby piracy could become obsolete. This levy could be introduced without raising the cost of Broadband to the end user if you lobby hard enough. Simply, it could come out of the ISP’s profits.
3) Government subsidies: At the moment, at least in the UK, government is ironically concerned with the economics of the music industry rather than ‘culture’. The government wants to see jobs being created. As the impact that a levy on the ISPs combined with a compulsory license for music on the Internet would essentially help create a cultural expansion on-line, so would the impact on job creation and artistic development. Theoretically, less law suits and lobbying would result in the creative industries focusing on music again. This would help free up government resources into the regeneration of music at the grass roots level rather than the seizure of resources that has been wasted on fighting piracy.
Conclusion:
“Free Culture” shouldn’t be limited to just certain sectors of the Culture and/or Economy. It doesn’t matter if you are a 12-year-old who has no money to buy a tune from itunes because he doesn’t have a credit card or the guy who makes the music and simply wants to be heard and earn a living. I hear people talking about the recession and how they are turning to music because it helps them get through these tough times. Music obviously has an important place in our human culture. Musicians give their heart, soul and left arm to be able to create. How can this all get sorted? ....
Back to Lawrence Lessig’s book ‘Free Culture’. Here’s how he puts it: “…my focus is not just on the concentration of power produced by concentrations in ownership, but more importantly, if because less visibly, on the concentration of power produced by a radical change in the effective scope of the law. The law is changing; that change is altering the way our culture gets made; that change should worry you--whether or not you care about the Internet, and whether you're on Safire's left or on his right.”
To be honest, these solutions could apply to all media on the internet and weighted and distributed based upon traffic to websites, traffic to the specific media being 'consumed' on the web, etc. Now, this could be a way to shake down the monopolies and create free culture and a viable economic culture on the internet, couldn't it?
He was right, the law is changing. It’s up to you to cast a vote otherwise somebody else will decide for you.
What will YOU do? petition
Lily Allen is right about the piracy problem... And we are all concerned & affected!! People who are claiming that illegal file sharing is a way to agree are totally wrong about respect & creativity!! Creativity is the driving force of our democratic world, our way to our democracy, and artists are the true source and origin!! This Is The Real Reason To Protect Artists & Their Works, In First...!! Hope The Whole Artistic Community Will Be Able To Protect & Respect Lily Allen For All The Work Done!! She Deserve It!!! With My Better Thoughts!! Nicolas / LeChatdOsiris®
ReplyDeleteI agree, it doesn't look very good for the p2p community to constantly be slagging off any artist who believes they should get a return for their work. But, Lily is for cutting off people's internet and that just sucks
ReplyDeleteYou either take the side of Lily Allen or the RIAA.
ReplyDeleteOn one side you want Lily Allen to get sued and blocked from the internet because of her mixtapes and plagiarism. Or you would support Lily Allen by not wanting her to get sued or terminated from the nets.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Excuse me, but you are completely misrepresenting the position of the Pirate Party. We have given great consideration to the needs of artists, just not the needs of Lily Allen.
ReplyDeleteIn case you hadn't noticed, I am using my real name here the same as most people on the PPUK forums who criticised her. I am not 'hiding' behind anonymity simply because I am not famous.
The verbal attacks on Lily Allen were *entirely* justified, because her defence of the recording industry position was completely hypocritical given her own public violations of copyright. If someone tries to come across as a moral crusader whilst simply mouthing a transparent corporate agenda, and can't even stick to the alleged moral position she pushes - damn right she is going to get picked up on it. She is trying to use her celebrity to gain acceptance for her opinions, I have no pity when this bites her in the arse.
Your lies and complete misrepresentation of the Pirate Party, whether you are genuinely ignorant enough to actually believe it or otherwise, constitutes libellous statements under UK law (and most probably that of most western countries).
ReplyDeleteI suggest you stop spreading falsehoods, do some research into the truth, which could be done in mere SECONDS by just loading any Pirate Party homepage, and then see just how wrong you are, provided you are actually just ignorant on the subject. Following, you should most probably write a retraction or remove your libellous remarks.
@Andrew and @Peterh
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, you both need to do a wee bit of research about The Pirate Party. Rick Falkvinge: In a BBC interview panel that I did with him 2 weeks ago, he clearly stated that Artists have no right to make money with their music. He later reconfirmed that statement on twitter. These are not lies, these are pure facts. Ask him, he'll tell you himself. And in case you're not up-to-date with who Rick is, last time I checked, he was the leader of the Pirate Party in Sweden.
We are both in the UK Pirate Party. Please don't presume to tell us what we think.
ReplyDeletetee heee heeeeeeeee. They don't even know what their own pirate party leaders are saying. ROFL
ReplyDeleteFor those who are not in the real fact about what Lily Allen is talking about the "cutting off people's internet"... She is just refering to a French law HADOPI#2 just passed in our country!! (( http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/france-approves-internet-piracy-138692.html )) It's not just about a cutting off, it's all about people abuse!! We do not want to cut off internet's people just for pleasure, but in the ultimate case of a too much more illegal download computing... That Is A Great Difference Between You Can Have In Your Mind About!! Also you can read the Universal Declaration of Humans Rights, and we are still walking it this way!! Private propriety is a reality, a fact & a state!! (( http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ )) And we all can try to work in the better way, have a look onto the WIPO work and it will be an enlightment about!! For Sure!! (( http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2009/article_0039.html )) All Of This Great Stuff Is Not Done By Anonymous People!! We Are Those People!! So... Could You Please, Stop Fighting Against Lily Allen!! She Can Make A Change In Her Own Mind & Way To Live About Many Things!! That Is Calling: Maturity!! Be Reasonable & Be Responsible!! Stop Fighting Good People, Caus' It's Just Against Yourself That You Are Fighting!!! Thanks Ahead & Thank You All!! With All Light Love & Respect Can I Have!! Nicolas / LeChatdOsiris®
ReplyDeleteah, right. So, you're saying peterh, that the Pirate Party in the UK isn't necessarily preaching from the same hymn book as the Pirate Party in Sweden? Fair enough. I've updated my post to explain that statement, which comes from Rick Falkvinge. How's that suit you? Fair's fair!
ReplyDeletelikewise, to promote 'faire', I'm not a member of the RIAA. I have nothing to do with them. I'm an independent artist who raised investments from Ingenious VCT and private investors on a DIY project profiting from exposure on both traditional media (radio, TV, Film) and the internet. I DON't believe that Zarkozy and Mandelson are on the right track. I have said this thousands of times. I'm all for the 'new model' approach. I'm also all for free music, as long as there is a system that compensates artists on a fair basis. We've even set up a beta community in this past year. We researched using bittorrent and other p2p technology as well. But, the music industry wasn't willing to give up their rights even partially. I'm not criticising you for not preaching from the same hymn sheet as the Pirate Party in Sweden. The Music Industry has been around since the phonogram and they are also totally divided. But, the two sides do to some effect represent extremes. In that situation, I can only see introducing viable and logical solutions. I'm not saying that the solutions I've mentioned would be perfect. But, there needs to be some progress otherwise, your Mandelson's and Zarkozy's are going to put the internets under their thumbs. That's the way I see it. Of course, I could be wrong. But, what if I'm right? It's human nature to find a point of negotiation between two extremes. That's the way it seems to work in everyday life and that's how it works in business. Fair play.
ReplyDelete@LeChatdosiris that's a point as well. Property is an issue. Some of the pontification about IP (as in Intellectual Property in this case) needs to be sorted. Peterh, what is the pirate party UK's stance on IP in exact terms? How does the argument stand versus physical property? IP is a somewhat intangible asset. However, if it is squelched then, it can potentially squelch the motivation of the 'idea' maker. Since success in our culture unfortunately is based upon the material (e.g. money). The music business has always concentrated on units shifted and profits. Just like all business in the world we live in. In reality, the internet likewise differentiates in the same manner. You know, uniques, advertising, profits. What would your take be on that? I've seen that the Pirate party is interested in net neutrality, and change in copyright and patent law. What's the ultimate benefit that this could bring? I can see some benefits, but, from my research, the pirate party has a sacrificial lamb at the moment. i.e: media and those with intangible rights that aren't necessarily physical, however, enjoyed by the masses.
ReplyDeleteMy name is John Barron, and I joined the Pirate Party as soon as it formed in the UK.
ReplyDeleteYou are ill-informed about the aims of the party, we propose the reform of copyright so that creators receive a (limited) commercial incentive to produce new work, while ensuring that non-commercial sharing is not restricted, since there is no cost to that and preventing it also prevents free speech and private communication between citizens.
All Pirate Parties worldwide follow similar general principles, though we may differ on specific detail of how this is to be achieved, and each organisation is nationally independent and determines their own detailed policy.
@peterh how is she presuming to tell you what you think just because you are from the pirate party in the UK? Did she say she was talking about the UK Pirate Party? If you all fly the same flag, and on of the main leaders says something strongly and repetitively, and Indiana has repeated it in her blog, how is it considered libelous?
ReplyDeleteGood point - It is a matter of record that Rick Falkvinge did actually say (on his Twitter feed):-
ReplyDelete"Of course not. Nobody has the RIGHT to make a living off of their OWN choice of activity."
How is it libellous to repeat what someone has said?
But this is going off the main point of this article - Ms. Gregg is merely trying to make the point that the p2p community have to find some common ground and thrash out a totally new business model in which everybody wins; You get free media and artists get paid.
Otherwise, governments step in and everybody loses.
Are you a member of the FAC?
ReplyDeletedid you see this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/09/lily_unites_musicians_against.html
ReplyDeleteYes, I am a member of the FAC. yes, the fac sent an email a couple days ago about an emergency meeting that was to be held last night at Air Studios in London. It isn't surprising that they would completely change their position because they have been negotiating with the major labels all last week and yesterday Mandelson made a statement that this would be a first step while new business models are formed or something to that effect. They didn't really have a choice at the meeting because the labels have their own ideas and want to protect their business, which is pretty normal for a business or industry to do. Whatever is decided next week, it won't be a permanent fix if they do decide to cut people's internet access off because people will just find other ways around it. But, maybe this is meant to buy time for them to sort out a real solution?
ReplyDeleteOf course we all need time to build a good & balanced solution for everyone!! To get paid for your music, for your artistic stuff published on the web is a good way, obviously, and we all agree with... But, to get paid need to have an income upstair, and to have a minimun of care/protection of this stuff!! It's not just some spontaneous generation who give you some cash flow!!! Right or Wrong?! Have you learn how works a water tower?! (( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_tower for example )) Many can disagree with our global society, and we all can understand it, but everybody must understand back, that we can't stop our global society in a finger clap!! We all can have this sort of communication, dialog, just because of some olders passed away for us... Could you please, have a true look onto our global world, and not just by the little peephole of our own look!! We all can build a better world, but together, not against!! And some rules are a necessity!! We can't do without!! So, sit down around a big work table, and work to build practical, pragmatics & positives solutions!! Thank You!! All The Best Always!! Cordially!!! Nicolas / LeChatdOsiris®
ReplyDelete@LeChatdOsiris Having said that, the industry has let this go on for over 10 years ever since Napster. So, it's an entire generation of people who have been educated that copying is ok. So, you have to wonder how much more time is needed. 10 years is surely enough time for something to finally happen towards this. The two extremes need to form some sort of compromise that is suitable.
ReplyDeleteI usually try to not talk about extremists both sides, but on this time here, I will do it!! I use to never explain how goes negotiations with extremits both sides, just because they can't seize and understand at all the answer we could give about, and they use it to blast against us in their own restrictive way of life!! We cannot negotiate with any extremist, whatever side he could be, because the reality proves all days that any extremist cannot accept a democratical way to our world... An extremist haven't anything to give, but he has all to negotiate... And we have nothing to negociate, because he truly has nothing to give back!! An extremist never respect our democratical way to live, freedom & peace!! What would you negotiate in that case??! Nothing!! Just keep on themselves to walk to a democratical inner world, and world... Then, we could have to consider a possible way to negotiate!! But not before!! Our democracy, our freedom, our respect, is not to sell!!! About the real problem to seize in the cultural & artistic domains, it's easy to understand it: we all need to have respect for our work & works!! To be truly respected like the real craftsmen we are, wee need to build an international artists craft guild, to protect the work in first, and then the craftsman!! Until this artists craft guild will be really in a democratical order of work, nothing would change!! With All Light, Love & Respect Can I Have!!! Nicolas / LeChatdOsiris®
ReplyDeleteIt's not just a 'little' problem that Lily released a 'few' mix tapes. It's the fact she essentially launched her career off the back of these mix tapes and her 'own' music (*heavy* use of samples!) from her MySpace page early on.
ReplyDeleteDoes she not wonder how her career would have gone had she had her Internet (& MySpace) connection cut off for this?
Of course artists should be paid for their efforts but it's hard to argue against the fact that *both* herself and the artists in her mix tapes benefited from the wider audience they got. And all without payment on the download/transaction.
Also 3 'strikes' and your out. What nonsense! How hard is it to get banned from driving? There are numerous warnings, fines & court cases before even a short ban is imposed. Surely no sane person can argue downloading a 3min piece of music is more socially unacceptable than risking others lives through reckless driving!
@anonymous I have read some of the posts about lily and the mixtapes. I don't really know enough about what she did in order to comment properly or form an opinion. The way I see it, to be honest, is that ever since napster, the music industry has pretty much debated. Up until recently, they may have complained about losses due to file sharing, but, PR & media, publicists and loads of artists were using file-sharing for promotion a la 50cent's argument and also the original FAC statement. I don't believe that the industry thought that it would catch on to the extent that is has. In the past couple of years, it has effected breaking artists who need to re-coup more than any. The superstars are not effected and the unknown and unsigned can use it as a tool for promotion to get to stage 2. The problem is for the people who are in that in-between stage. That's why the FAC have decided to take a heavier stance for the interim because that's where it hurts the most. When investment has been made and promotion has been paid for. Lily had just recouped according to her blog. The marketing spend had to be repaid before she could be paid (ok, she would have had an advance as well. but, that's really just a bank loan).
ReplyDeletetrue about your analogy with reckless driving. Back to Lily, at least she did admit that she had made those tapes before she was informed about how the music industry works (worked) before.
But, I'll be a redundant elephant here, there really needs to be a situation where both the p2p commmunity and the music industry start to understand each other properly. Music industry needs to think long term and stop putting band-aids on with short term legislation like 3-strikes. Although, in the short term, it's probably necessary for their survival. The p2p community needs to recognize that there is a value that comes with the creation of all media on the internet. Music is a life long craft as far as I am concerned. Musician's spend years and years from an early age, through university and beyond. They are in some ways plastic surgeons for your soul. People turn to music and remember it during times of bliss, times of stress, the first date, the romantic first dance at the wedding. It has a value. There is no valid argument for why it shouldn't be compensated.
I'm now up to 37 years old, and as long as I can remember it, I still have heared this same debate about piracy & copyright... The problem seems standing on, but the technology has walked far ahead... I'm a huge fan of music & arts since more than 30 years now, and I still have the same feeling about: "Artists Seems Not Able To Work Together Through Common Goals To Achieve Concretely Their Same Job Action!!" I'm walking through my own artistic way for more than 15 years, and I never had a penny for all I've done, for all my work, and I'm obviously concerned & affected by piracy!! Many are fighting against records label, against managers, against big selling artists, etc. But, without all of those big selling artists, all of those managers, all of those records label, nothing would be the same at this moment on!!! It's with big selling artists, than some others more little selling artists have had a chance to be under some lights!! Never Forget It!! Times have changed, times are changing, for sure, but the only way we all have to walk is to plan The Future with the better as possible for everyone!!! This Future Only Can Be If This Future Is Developed Together..... I Just Now Hope To See A Day Artists Able To Work Together Through Common Goals To Achieve Their Wonderful Same Destiny!! With All My Heart!!! God Bless You All, Nicolas / LeChatdOsiris®
ReplyDeleteI expected a bit more from the featured artist coalition. It's shocking that they have been this wishy washy retaliating because one of theirs was attacked and not thinking through the consequences of what this kind of statement means. It doesn't make anyone want to take them seriously or gain respect rushing to make statements without a knowledge or some vision of the future big picture.
ReplyDeleteIsnt' Rick Falkvinge one of the main pirate party leaders in Sweden? You should have a look at the pirate party website in the UK. How can anyone take them seriously with some of the nonsense that they have written. I think it's strange with a political party is busy slagging off a little falling pop star like Lily Allen. For Rick Falkvinge to make a statement like this about musicians is simply no good for the party and also not very clever.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen this? http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/news-roundup-51009/ the comments prove how uneducated people are about what is really going on. The author or the blog posted a link to your blog here and made a big comment. He/she obviously doesn't understand what you're talking about and sounds completely uneducated which is seriously funny. Plus, she says that neither you or Lily Allen should have anything to say about piracy (uh, excuse me? Musicians shouldn't have anything to say about piracy? Hellooooo) That is one of the funniest things. Plus, there is some mention about technology. Basically he agrees with you but trying to disagree to make it look like he has some form of wit about him. Same as you describe. The type of person who has plenty of time to make commentary but more than likely does nothing.
ReplyDeleteThanks very much for the kind comments. I didn't say they shouldn't have an opinion, I said that the solution to this needs to be found by people without a financial interest in the topic and with experience of the technologies involved. Please quote where I sound uneducated and please give examples. In the meantime I will be posting the new article as soon as its finished. I'd love Ms Gregg to respond.
ReplyDeleteQuote "Musicians shouldn't have anything to say about piracy?"
If they are talking about the technology or legislation. No. Was it not Ian Morrow who said in an email to TPB that file-sharing was illegal..? I am covering that in my blog shortly, thanks for the link.
The sad thing is, I am against piracy myself (and my blog has repeatedly but that opinion forward since its creation over a year ago) You will see the issues I have with Ms Gregg and why I believe this is not only being looked at by people who don't understand the average tech user, but have not grasped the technology that creates it and how it can be progressed. My blog is a tech blog, for you to say I am uneducated is libelous and wrong, I doubt you would grasp any of the other usual concepts I cover.
"The type of person who has plenty of time to make commentary but more than likely does nothing."
Hang on, I agree file-sharing is wrong and I have no interest in the music/movie industry. Why should I? I am commenting on the basis that if you are going to debate at least have a strong argument with the "holes" closed up. If file-sharing resulted in the death penalty it would have no concern to me. The only reason our paths have crossed is that Ms Gregg and the piracy subject are crossing into my passions of software engineering and tech.
I hope you enjoy the article and please think about your own stance to (since you too are doing what Ms Gregg said, that being hiding behind anon) What are YOU doing to help the piracy problem BTW? Just commenting?
@openbytes To be frank, anyone affected by file-sharing has a right to comment about solutions. It's hypocritical to believe in free speech and then not respect other people's open commentary. My comment above about your blog is not libelous because it only infers that you 'sound uneducated' (and in my opinion, that's how your blog came across).
ReplyDeleteSaying that musician's shouldn't be entitled to make commentary about file-sharing due to their vested financial interest is like saying that union workers on strike shouldn't be negotiating for themselves on behalf of their interests. I believe that musicians have every right to contribute to creating and putting together possible solutions. It is, obviously, their livelihood and work that is being exploited.
How does someone like yourself who claims to advocate free speech feel the need to suggest that other people wouldn't be deemed'appropriate' to discuss an open topic?
You seem to 'infer; quite a bit. How do you know whether Lily Allen or Indiana Gregg have technical knowledge or not. There are thousands of musician's who practice other trades. For all you know, they both could be programmers. But, what difference would it make? I design websites and work on open source projects regularly. I don't know much about Lily Allen's technical knowledge, but, I have read and seen that Ms. Gregg has been working on a few technical projects. I for one believe that technically, a license for music on the internet is entirely pheasible and so would a tax on ISPs. There is no technical reason why that couldn't or shouldn't work as a solution for the media industries.
Unlike yourself (@openbytes), I DON'T believe that file-sharing is 'wrong'. However, it is wrong that musician's and creators (film, etc) are the only one's who are not receiving any compensation from their works which are being freely exploited and until that problem is solved, it will continue to be morally wrong. Everyone in the chain receives except for the creative people and industries. When it comes to sites like TPB who were earning millions (according to what was revealed in their case) off other people's works. That is fundamentally very wrong. The sharer's get the goods, the ISPs are paid, the hosts are paid, etc. all receive payment except for the artistic and creative people who's products are being reproduced by the masses. Therefore, there is too much supply which reduces the value. Which for the file-sharers makes mass free consumption of other people's work somehow acceptable? NO. It is not acceptable. And it's indisputable.
The Uneducated is my band's name BTW so I don't consider it an anon that I'm hiding behind.
What is it with @Openbytes?
ReplyDeleteThe guy just keeps contradicting himself but he can't see it. He does not approve of filesharing but then bad mouths Ms. Gregg about it. And to cap it all, like others before him, he spouts on about 'record companies can afford it' without realising how corrosive filesharing is and the effect it is having on the record industry.
I wonder how many of these people know that there really is a possibility that EMI might not last much more than 18 months...They are living on borrowed time as it is. If a well-respected money man such as Guy Hands (ex-CEO of EMI but still works for them) is struggeling to re-finance the business they really are in very deep trouble.
All due in part to the rampant filesharing. Have you not noticed that most of the members of FAC have record deals with EMI? - They are seriously worried that their current deals are coming to an end with little chance of renewal.
'Big record companies can afford it' That's just it; In another few years, there won't be any 'Big record companies'
Stan:
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say record companies can afford it? The point is I do realize how corrosive it is (infact I documented on my blog recently a conversation with a developer who said the same thing (and who I agree with completely)
Stan, if you read my article PROPERLY, you will see quite clearly:
"an issue that costs people their jobs, destroys small firms and stiffles creativity (IMO)."
I use the term "small firms" because as of yet we have seen no "big firms" YET being destroyed by piracy. We will but at the moment the knock on effect + recession is just kicking in.
and Stan for the record, even if "big companies can afford it" that doesn't justify the act. If you wish to make implication about my views at least read them first.
Now, I wonder if the people interested in the piracy issue would like to debate some of the points I put forward in my article.
Lets start with the Act and Section of UK which making using the BT protocol illegal. (as per TPB email)
Or how about we look at the innovation implication of patents, does Ms Gregg in her quest to foster creative talent have a view on this? but most importantly I raise several important issues which need to be considered in the filesharing debate, why are these not being discussed and instead seeming to fixate on the "egg throwing" by a few disgruntled file sharers? I have insults thrown at me all the time in respect of FOSS advocacy, I rise above it.
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ReplyDelete@openbytes Don't you think that discussing patents in a blog about p2p is sort of a different subject all together? Although, I would also like to hear her opinion since she probably has had to deal with patent issues with the K-box I would think.
ReplyDelete@stan of course piracy is eating into the major record labels dosh. That's what they are all hoping and preaching for. For some reason, they think that major record companies are evil. But, once (if) they become extinct, something else will replace them. Piracy isn't going to make big business disapear.
@indiana respect. There will always be people who will try to put you down. You seem to be the type of person who gets things done. You were one of the first artists who brought attention to the problems of piracy into the mainstream. It's one thing for artists to complain about it or pretend to support it. But not many of them put their money where their mouth was like you guys have done with Kerchoonz. I read on a p2p blog that they thought you had dealt a 'serious blow' to p2p. I think you started to rattle the cage and got a big reaction. It needed to be done at the time.
@ everybody, sorry for my long comment. Just though I'd put my 2p in.
Yeah but... Lily was very foolish being so outspoken about the issue after offering free downloads on her site of other artists' work. ie what a hypocrite. THAT'S why she got panned.
ReplyDelete@anonymous Maybe Lily did make some mixtapes. But, who knows, she may have also had permission from the songwriters, publishers and performers to make the tapes for all anyone knows? Who knows? I don't know if she made any statement about that or not. I think everyone seems to be missing the point. POINT: When is there going to be a solution whereby the system becomes 'fair'? Why is it so many people think that musician's are supposed give up their recordings to the masses and work for free? ISPs make money, websites make money, the public get free music. All of this has to do with the content that is being created by creative people. Since the mp3 has become the new distribution method, who's going to go and buy an album after they've downloaded the exact same album for free on a p2p network?
ReplyDeleteI think I've used this analogy before about 'enforcement'. There is a lot of argument about whether 3 strikes would be enforceable or not. But, you know, speed limits aren't entirely enforceable either. Tons of people speed regardless of the fact that the roads are policed and speed cameras, speed bumps, etc. all exist. Speeding is illegal because the law states that you have speed limits. It isn't completely enforceable though. Nor would 3 strikes be enforceable.
I don't think that 3 strikes is a very clever way forward; but, I can understand the reasons behind it. You know, many laws are impossible to completely enforce. But, for as long as the law doesn't specifically state that something isn't acceptable, people will go ahead and do as they please simply because they can. Once there is a law that says 'don't speed, or you'll get a traffic ticket', people begin to take more caution. I do think that the ideas behind Hadopi and also Mandelson's 3-strikes are based on a similar premise. Most laws are not completely enforceable.
A compulsary license for music and/or perhaps all media on the internet could be an alternative rather than penalising people by restricting bandwidth. Perhaps a contributive tax on ISPs or maybe even a 'meter'situation similar to your gas or electricity bill whereby customers pay based upon consumption. A combination of both options theoretically could create a positive eco-system for the creators of media (music, film, content, etc.) Obviously a system like this would take some time to implement and would also perhaps mean an adjustment to copyright laws (meaning that publishers and labels may need to give up a portion of control). But, it's entirely achievable IMO.
FYI: I did write an email directly to @openbytes with photographs of my entry and exit dates into France and back to the UK which gives proof of my whereabouts and that I was not making any anonymous comments on anybody's blog during that time. (There are references to a blog where someone is claiming that I left comments on his blog as various alias's. The title of the blog is 'Indiana Gregg and Ian Morrow Still Mastering the Internet'.) The allegations in that blog are libelous and were obviously intended to denigrate both myself and Ian. The only thing that is true on that blog is that Ian did erase the wikipedia page at one point a couple of years ago because a person from an IP address at the Accenture offices in Germany (an office coincidently where my ex works) had made some remarks on the wikipedia page. Those remarks were erased by wikipedia under their 'living persons'criteria after we sent a fax to the foundation.
ReplyDeleteQuote "I don't think that 3 strikes is a very clever way forward; but, I can understand the reasons behind it."
ReplyDeleteHi! Yep completely agree, although looking at your stance I think you are being far more reasonable than me!!
I am personally of the opinion that ISP's should be held accountable and that the blocking of all the known tracker sites both private and public is the way forward, sure it would be easy for "someone in the know" to get around, but the average filesharer I believe would be stopped overnight with this tactic.
I think one of the reasons why p2p is so massive is because its just so easy to do even for the computer unsavvy (if thats a word!)
I think the targetting of the sharer is impractical because of the numbers involved, the burden of proof and the difficulties in adapting existing legislation to make a case. I think that means that the ISP's have to take responsibility in the same way as a landlord if he/she sells to an underage person or to someone who is drunk (yes believe it or not it is an offence to sell alcohol to a drunk person) then his/her license is at risk.
Some argue that this is censorship (blocking BT sites) however, I would argue that although we live in a country of free speech but there are things censored for issues of decency et al (and rightfully so)
Can I also confirm that Ms Gregg DID NOT make any anonymous comments on my site, I have the IP addresses.
I would also like to say that shortly there will be a "setting the record straight" article on my blog.
Ms Gregg in my opinion has been the victim of a series of lies that aimed to cheapen her view, she has more than answered the allegations which I linked on my site and I hope my article will go someway to counter the e-liars on the net who sought to attack her. Personally I would have sought legal recourse if I had been her and I think the only thing Ms Gregg is guilty of is being "too nice" and not persuing these people in the courts. I know what I would have done if I had been her.
I am big enough to say that my original views of her were WRONG. I hope I can fix that.
Goblin.
@openbytes I think that it would be hard to prove that she and her husband didn't edit those articles because the IP addresses are in wikipedia. So it would only be her word against the word of the guy that posted the blog.
ReplyDeleteQuote "I think that it would be hard to prove that she and her husband didn't edit those articles"
ReplyDeleteIt would be if she hadn't provided the photographic evidence that she wasn't even in the country. She has made herself very clear in regards of what was written.
How easy would it be for someone to edit/deface WIKI pretending to be her? I'd say very.
What I would hope is that you will check the article when its finished.
@openbytes saw your post on twitter. http://tinyurl.com/yfgx8tj
ReplyDelete@anonymous if they were out of the country and have proof of that, then, what's your problem? Publishing lies about other people is not cool.
@indiana I'm not sure if you have seen this, but, this sounds a lot like what you were warning people about with your 'internet police' letter to TPB. Is this really what government is planning?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/security/0,39044829,62058697,00.htm
@Kev,
ReplyDeleteI think that Kaspersky is talking about fighting serious 'cyber criminals'. Many of which are experienced hackers who put national security at risk.
He's talking about the same thing that a lot of security experts would like to have enforced. Obviously, on a public level, this would also help prevent credit card fraud and other breaches of security on the net. Yes, he's talking about 'internet passports' and 'internet police' and has a great deal of experience. This kind of change would mean that there woud be no web anonymity anymore. Whether or not governments are actually planning this or not? What do you think?
LeChatdOsiris®'s Position About File-Sharing, Download Computing & Downloading:
ReplyDelete`` If we are referring to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ Article 17.(1): “Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.”
And if we are referring to the intellectual property as one particular field of the global property, like specified by the World Intellectual Property Organization, http://www.wipo.org
Through the perspective of the Article 27.(2): “Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.”
And, taking into account that every author has the liberty to accept or decline to share, copy, duplicate, reproduce, hire, sell, lend, perform in public, transmit, and/or broadcast his scientific, literary or artistic production, referring to the Article 3.: “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.”
The Article 28.:“Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.” give us the inalienable right to expect from a third party or the others, to not share, copy, duplicate, reproduce, hire, sell, lend, perform in public, transmit, and/or broadcast our scientific, literary or artistic production without an official and valid agreement or authorization…
It goes without saying that the lack or absence of an official and valid agreement or authorization couldn’t be considered like an agreement or an authorization, tacit or implicit.
So, unauthorized file-sharing, download computing, downloading, copy, duplication, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance, transmitting, and/or broadcasting is making damages & prejudices, and is violation of applicable laws, and must be considered like it!!
This is just some reasons that each author and his lawful steward or representative, has the legitimacy and the lawfulness to officially have a request in damages law and to expect redress!!
To be fully understood, it is more than necessary here to make it clear, that, a one & only one private copy for a private/familial use is still always tolerated!
With hope to be understood in the better way as possible & to clear some of LeChatdOsiris®'s thoughts about!! ``
Cordially!
LeChatdOsiris®
Wrote On: 2009, October 23th...
LeChatdOsiris® ©2009 / All Rights Reserved All Countries!!